Monday, 4 January 2010

Who's The Daddy? Why polyandry is a bad idea


Saudi writer Nadine Al Bdair says polyandry should be allowed now that DNA testing can prove who is the father of a child.

She wants Muslim scholars to allow women to marry up to four husbands in the same way that men can have up to four wives.

"Traditionalists argue that Islam forbids women to marry more than one man at once to determine the fatherhood of the child in case the woman becomes pregnant. This argument has now collapsed because modern science can identify the father of any child through DNA testing," she said.

Responses have varied; some have taken her article as a protest against inequalities in Muslim marriage laws. Secularist commentators are talking about freedom of expression. Lawyer Khalid Fouad Hafez, who is also the Secretary General of the People's Democratic Party in Egypt has denounced it as blasphemy and a call for an immoral act that is a violation of the Egyptian criminal code. He said that unless she repents, the law must take action to protect (Muslim) society against her call to 'legalise adultery'.

To take a step back from the reactions, would DNA testing really do women any favours? Would it liberate women, Muslim or otherwise? Do they really want polyandry?

In the UK, there are over 200,000 paternity tests a year, twice that many in America - and those are only the official figures, not counting home testing. There is a long article in the New York Times about the emotional devastation caused to men who discover that their children are not really theirs. Stories appear in the media every now and then claiming that one in ten men are unwittingly bringing up someone else's child or, in China, nearly one in three men. Companies offer home testing kits with names like Peace of Mind DNA Paternity testing (in Ireland, for around 700 euros as peace of mind doesn't come cheap).

Peace of mind is the last thing these tests offer; they sell suspicion and stories about false paternity feed the doubt.

While Al Bdair may be making a valid point about injustice in the Muslim world, her solution would create more problems for women, Muslim or not. If testing became widespread, men would more readily suspect that they might not be the father, that women are not to be trusted. Women would be guilty until proven innocent. In more severe Muslim societies, it can already be next to impossible for a woman to clear her name, even if raped - with fatal consequences.

Marriage was historically an institution to produce legitimate heirs, which is why virginity was prized in a bride. Childbirth was all about the transfer of land, money and power in a time when fatherhood could not be guaranteed. Women started giving birth on their backs so that men could see the baby coming out and be sure it had not been switched for another. In some societies, men would favour their sisters' children who were certain to share at least some of their genes (or in earlier terms, to share a common ancestor). Arranged marriages in some cultures are still about a union of resources.

In behaviourist terms, marriage is a form of mate guarding, ensuring that females don't sneak off in search of better males with better quality sperm, knowing that the mate would rear the results. In other animals, guarding is a pretty hit and miss affair.

Even when couples marry for love, men may choose to raise someone else's children but do not want to be fooled into it. Even so, some research has found that stepchildren are more likely to be abused - the so-called Cinderella effect (although this is not without its critics). Adoptive parents prove that it is possible to raise other people's children but again, this is a choice.

Not only do stories about false paternity create a climate of suspicion, they are often based on a misreading of statistics. If 28% of paternity tests in a sample come up negative, this does not mean that 28% of men in the whole population are not the father of their children as media stories would indicate. For a start, men who get tested may have more of a reason to - often because the CSA is involved.

In the West there is still a lingering suspicion about women based on Judeao-Christian tradition. There are endless misogynistic quotes but here are two typical ones:

No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die (Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24).

What is the difference whether it is in a wife or a mother, it is still Eve the temptress that we must beware of in any woman......I fail to see what use woman can be to man, if one excludes the function of bearing children. (St. Augustine of Hippo: 354 to 430 CE).

This may seem a bit extreme but vestiges of the old virgin-mother-whore career options for girls do still lurk, as we see when promiscuous boys are heros and promiscuous girls are slags. Women's sexuality still has a long way to go to be the equal of men's.

There is also the lingering idea that childbirth is the most important thing a woman can do. This idea is perpetuated even by some women, who look down on childless women as excluded from their special club.

While many men of course do not worry about their paternity, relatives still routinely tell the father of a newborn how much it resembles him, a cultural left-over from a time when having the same nose was the only way of judging shared genes.

With or without DNA testing, polyandry would not easily allow women more sexual choice or financial support or equal social status. It would not even the playing field. Four husbands would mean four men wanting to pass on their genes, so increased pregnancies and child-rearing for the woman, effectively reducing her to a walking womb.

One man can impregnate countless wives in a short time but a woman can only provide offspring to one mate every nine months. This would lead to the husbands competing for womb-time. It's why the harem is common in nature but not polyandry. How do you keep the other husbands interested while waiting for their turn to come, if it ever does? And how would the men's wills work?

Fraternal polyandry, as practiced in a few remote communities in India, Nepal, Sri Lanka and Tibet, at least means the men all have some genetic investment in the children - as long as they can be sure that one of them really is the father. Multiple husbands, especially in more traditional societies, would mean multiple cooking, laundry and cleaning. And having four husbands would mean three other women with none.

Bdair may have done what she set out to by starting a heated debate on women's rights, but perhaps next time she could come up with a better idea to base it on. And that's without even going into what's best for the children. Any woman who thinks that testing is a good idea should read Othello.












12 comments:

  1. Nice piece.

    Anthropologist Marvin Harris reckons that polygyny previals where there is an abundance of land but a shortage of labour, so wives and children are the best way of thriving (breeding your own workforce). He cites the Mormons of Utah as an example.

    And polyandry is where the reverse occurs - little useable land and lots of people. A way of limiting potential heirs to scare land, to those with whom you have some genetic affinity.

    Harris also points out that a lot of modern households are de facto polyandrous, where a single mother is 'attended' by the father of her child/ren plus boyfriends/s. I know a couple of single mothers and this one frankly strikes me as a bit utopian - between the kids, the job and the housework, they're usually too knackered and socially deprived to use makeup, let alone shag a harem.

    There was some recent media trumpeting that men could get more sex by doing housework, as it made women feel less resentful and more appreciated. It's reckoned that even with full-time jobs and child-care, women still do the majority of it.

    So I'd worry less about paternity and polyandry, and more about some poor cow with five sets of socks to pick up. (As Tessa points out)

    Does this mean there would be more resentment with larger numbers of partners who don't help with housework, therefore less sex? Sexual activity inversely proportional to the number of men unprepared to do the dishes?

    Like sitting at a feast with a bout of resent-fuelled anorexia.

    ReplyDelete
  2. And polyandry is where the reverse occurs - little useable land and lots of people. A way of limiting potential heirs to scare land, to those with whom you have some genetic affinity.

    I forget the location, but there was a rather good example in a documentary a while: a Himalayan valley, with a consequent small absolutely fixed limit on land resources. The culture had developed to deal with this in two ways: one was fraternal polyandry; and the other was that the reproducing community was kept down by a large proportion of men becoming Buddhist monks.

    ReplyDelete
  3. While you do have a point in criticizing the usefulness of tests and the societal/biological usefulness of polyandry, this is not Bdair's point. She simply states that *if* the Muslim law is scripturally based on the "mater semper certa est" principle, *then* the existence of DNA tests should allow a woman to have multiple husbands, period. She can then freely choose to use this option or not...

    ReplyDelete
  4. page 1.


    Christian Wedlock.

    QUESTION:
    Can a woman have more than two husbands?

    ANSWER:
    No, a woman cannot have more than two living husbands. A man has no choice, as he must be in wedlock with one living wife. But a woman has three choices. Firstly, no wedlock with a husband. Secondly, wedlock with one husband. Or thirdly, wedlock with two husbands. That’s it, there are no further choices for a woman, and there is no choice at all for a man.

    1 Corinthians 7:2 King James 1611.
    Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    Yr. 1783. 10th George Prince of Wales Own Hussars. (King George III).
    Yr. 1898. 19th Alexandra Princess of Wales Own Hussars. (Queen Victoria).

    Therefore two women can own a regiment of cavalry, and two men can own a regiment of cavalry.

    1 Corinthians 6:16 King James 1611.
    What! know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

    Therefore in the New Testament a man and woman lying together are one flesh, as follows:

    A husband and wife who lie together by carnal copulation shall be one flesh.

    A fornicator and fornicatress who lie together by carnal copulation shall be one flesh.

    A man and common courtesan or common prostitute who lie together by carnal copulation shall be one flesh.

    (A common prostitute is a woman who commonly offers her body for acts of lewdness for payment. An act of lewdness can never be an act of carnal copulation, as it is blasphemy to state that the Angel Gabriel and Mary committed a lewd act. The common law of england states that it is impossible for any woman to be a prostitute under any circumstances, but that a woman may continue on to be a common prostitute.).

    A fornicator/fornicatress and adulterer/adultress who lie together by carnal copulation shall be one flesh.

    An adulterer and adultress who lie together by carnal copulation shall be one flesh.

    Clearly the New Testament lays down that a man must be in wedlock with his own wife, and a woman must be in wedlock with her own husband. Furthermore the New Testament specifically limits the number of wives that a man can have to only one, but sets no limit to the number of husbands a woman can have. But there must be some limit for a woman, or one woman could be in wedlock with thousands of men. Rationally, if one woman can satisfy the bodily lust of one man every day, and forty men can satisfy the bodily lust of one woman every day, then is one wife for every man and forty husbands for every woman what the New Testament requires? No, because the New Testament is a document of truth, not a document of reason.

    ReplyDelete
  5. page 2.


    Luke 1:28 King James 1611.
    Luke 1:31 King James 1611.
    Luke 1:28-35 King James 1611.
    In the New Testament, the angel Gabriel came in unto Mary, a virgin woman, and Mary conceived and delivered her firstborn son, Jesus, the son being God the Son, the father being God the Father. And when Mary’s womb delivered her firstborn son Jesus unto the world, then Mary was like all women delivered of a firstborn son unto the world, as a woman’s firstborn son can never belong to the mother but must belong to the Lord God.

    Luke 2:23 King James 1611.
    Exodus 13:2&12 King James 1611.
    And so like all women delivered of a firstborn son, Mary was no longer a virgin woman, but like all said women, Mary was a holy woman.

    Matthew 13:53-56 King James 1611.
    Mark 6:1-4 King James 1611.
    And husband Joseph Jacob came in unto Mary and husband Joseph Heli came in unto Mary, and Mary conceived and delivered Jesus’ brothers, James, Joses, Simon, Judas, and also Jesus’ sisters.

    Matthew 1:6&16 King James 1611.
    Luke 3:23&31 King James 1611.
    Joseph Jacob was the descendent of King David’s son Solomon, and Joseph Heli was the descendent of King David’s son Nathan.

    Genesis 38:16-18 King James 1611.
    “Came in unto her” means congress or carnal copulation. In the Old Testament, Judah came in unto Tamar, his daughter-in-law, and Tamar conceived and delivered twin sons. Tamar had lain in wait for Judah on the side of a far away road, and Judah had been unable to recognize Tamar because she was wearing a veil, and only common harlots wore veils. Upon first seeing this strange woman wearing a veil, Judah bargained a future payment of a kid from his flock, and therefore gave as his pledge, his personal signet ring, his personal wrist bangles, and his personal walking staff, for coming in unto her. Tamar had been in wedlock with Judah’s first son, who God had killed for being wicked. Tamar had then been in wedlock with Judah’s second son, who God had then killed when he saw the second son deliberately spill his seed on the ground during carnal copulation with Tamar.

    That was because if Tamar was made with child by the second son, and if such child was a baby son born of Tamar, then under the law of the Hebrews that baby son born of Tamar was the first born baby son of the dead first son, and not any baby son of the second son, despite Tamar having conceived that baby son with the second son. This meant that if a dead man had no son, but still had a widow and a brother, then the widow and the brother should ignore consanguinity, and if the brother was already in wedlock, bigamy, in order to give the dead man a first born son.

    ReplyDelete
  6. page 4.


    The Estate of Marriage. Martin Luther 1522.
    Although Martin Luther confirmed that a woman could have two husbands, he nevertheless immediately restricted it to women who were in a marriage which had produced no children and who had then obtained permission from their first husband to take their second husband. Confusingly, Martin Luther did not make it clear as to how long a woman had to wait before taking her second husband.

    To sum up, the New Testament upholds the example of deacons, elders, and bishops, for men to follow. That example is one wife. The New Testament also lays down that the Old Testament no longer applies to men or women, except for the 10 Commandments, and gives as an example of this that a woman is no longer bound to have only one husband. If men must follow the example of the male Christian leader in marriage, whether bishop, deacon, or elder, then surely women must follow the example of the female Christian leader in marriage. What leader is that? The primary one in the New Testament is Mary, the Mother of Jesus, God the Son.

    Luke 1:15&35&41 King James 1611.
    Mary had carnal copulation with three men. The Angel Gabriel, Joseph Jacob, and Joseph Heli. However, Mary was only in wedlock with two men, Joseph Jacob, and Joseph Heli. Furthermore, the Angel Gabriel was not a man of this world, and he seems not to have taken a fully visible male form when he had carnal copulation with Mary as ordered by God the Father, for it appears that at some stage God the Holy Ghost came upon or entered Mary. Either this was at the moment Mary conceived or immediately afterwards. After Mary conceived, she immediately went to visit her cousin Elisabeth, who was six months with child, a son, who also had been conceived when Elisabeth had been filled by God the Holy Ghost.

    Accordingly it would be fully in accordance with the New Testament for a man to have one wife, and a woman to have two husbands. That the Angel Gabriel had carnal copulation with Mary is both interesting and theologically necessary, but it is not enough of an example for a woman to attempt to take a third husband in wedlock, whilst her first and second husbands still liveth.

    Matthew 19:11-12 King James 1611.
    1 Corinthians 9:5 King James 1611.
    The New Testament does not give man any choice; he must have wedlock with one woman. But do bear in mind that Jesus, God the Son, was never in wedlock with any woman, despite all Jesus’ Twelve Disciples being or having been in wedlock with a woman.

    But the New Testament gives a woman three choices.

    1st Choice:
    Virgin woman without wedlock.

    2nd Choice:
    Virgin woman with one husband in wedlock without child.
    Virgin woman with one husband in wedlock with female child or female children.
    Holy woman with one husband in wedlock with firstborn male child.
    Holy woman with one husband in wedlock with male child or children together with female child or children.

    ReplyDelete
  7. page 5.


    3rd Choice:
    Holy woman with two husbands in wedlock with firstborn male child.
    Holy woman with two husbands in wedlock with male child or children together with female child or children.

    A number of denominations have a service for wedlock, but so far every one of them has inserted words that clearly say a woman may be in wedlock with only one man at a time. Even the State Lutheran Evangelical Church of Sweden states this, despite Martin Luther himself saying that a wife can be in wedlock with two living husbands.

    But what do you expect. After all, Martin Luther stated in writing that under no circumstances was anyone to call himself a “Lutheran” and under no circumstances was any church to call itself a “Lutheran Church”. So what do all northern europeans called themselves? Lutherans! Ask them what church they belong to? The Lutheran Church!

    A number of denominations do not have any service for wedlock, on the grounds that wedlock is not a church matter, as it is a state matter. But every such denomination has nevertheless inserted words in that denomination’s discussion of wedlock, that firmly says that a woman can only have one husband in wedlock at a time.

    Nowhere do any of the denominations give any explanation for their defiance of the New Testament. Of course that just might be because there is neither any justifiable explanation or excusable explanation for such defiance.

    Still, just looking at using only the principle of choice as a guide, all the above denominations are pointing in the right direction, even if they are not pointing down the correct path.

    That is, a man has no choice, he must make efforts to be in wedlock with one wife at some stage of his life here in this world.

    And a woman still has a choice, in that she may choose not to be in wedlock with a man in this world, or she may choose to be in wedlock with one husband at some stage of her life here in this world. This means that the principle of a woman having a choice remains intact.

    The defiance of both the Lord God and the New Testament by the various denominations by the removal of a woman’s option to make efforts to be in wedlock with two husbands at the same time at some stage of her life in this world, still leaves intact the principle of choice for the woman and no choice for the man.

    Constitution of The Spartans (Xenophon). 388 B.C.
    League of The Iroquois (Lewis Henry Morgan). 1851 A.D.
    Only two non-christian groups in the world have been known to practice New Testament wedlock. The Spartans and the Mohawk.

    Only monandry and diandry, or New Testament style wedlock, was lawful among the Spartans, citizens of the greatest of the greek city-states, Sparta, and history’s final saviours of Western Civilization at Thermopylae (The Hot Gates) in 480 B.C.

    And only monandry and diandry, or New Testament style wedlock, was lawful among the Mohawk, citizens of the greatest of the eastern woodland North American tribes, which forever blocked France’s attempt to seize New York so as to split England’s colonies in twain.

    ReplyDelete
  8. page 6.


    Not only did spartan women routinely have two husbands at the same time, but Sparta herself always had two kings at the same time, as Sparta had two separate royal families. This dual monarchy (there are no other words to describe it) came from the Agiad Royal Family and the Eurypontid Royal Family.

    Although some greek city-states had matrilineal descent, Sparta had patrilineal descent like most greek city-states. Accordingly a Spartan woman practicing monandry would give patrilineal descent at birth to her daughters and to her sons from her living sole husband at nine months previously. A Spartan woman practicing diandry would give patrilineal descent at birth to her old daughters from her living old husband at nine months perviously, give patrilineal descent at birth to her old sons from her living old husband at nine month previously, and give patrilineal descent at birth to her new daughters from her old husband at nine months previously. But a Spartan woman practicing diandry would give patrilineal descent at birth to her new sons from her living new husband at nine months previously.

    Much criticism of both the Spartans and the Mohawk, has been leveled by outsiders who complain of the extreme freedom of the females and the extreme militarism of the males. It must be noted that there is no record of any Spartan male, Spartan female, Mohawk male, or Mohawk female, complaining of female freedom or male militarism.

    Whatever your point of view on Spartan life or Mohawk life, the New Testament lays down cast-iron guidelines for wedlock. The fact that the New Testament complies with Spartan law and Mohawk law is irrelevant.

    Of absolutely no relevance to this discussion, the symbol of the United States of America is the bald headed eagle, which is a species that uses both monandry and diandry for conception, and where the one male or two males reside in the exactly the same nest as the one female. The one female and either the one male or two males, stay in the nest together and raise the chick together.

    Mark 10:7 King James 1611.
    Ephesians 5:31 King James 1611.
    Both husbands must leave their families to go and become a member of the wife’s family, or the one husband must leave his family to go and become a member of the wife’s family.

    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS POLYGAMY.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS TRIGAMY.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS BIGAMY.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS MAHOMETRY.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS CLITORECTAS.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS MUTILATAS.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS CASTRATOS.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS EVIRATOS.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS MUSICOS
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS POPERY.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS PRIESTCRAFTERY.
    THE NEW TESTAMENT FORBIDS MONKERY.

    ReplyDelete
  9. page 7.


    CAPITAL LAWES OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE MOHAWK.

    1st. If any person within this Government of The Mohawk shall by direct, exprest, impious, or presumptuous ways, deny the true God and his Attributes; he shall be put to death.

    2nd. If any person within this Government of The Mohawk shall maliciously and on purpose deny that any Mohawk person may have arms for his defence suitable to his condition and as allowed by law; he shall be put to death.

    3rd. If any man shall traitorously deny his Clanmother’s right and titles to her Eagle Feathers and Dominions, or shall raise arms to resist her Authority; he shall be put to death.

    4th. If any man shall treacherously conspire or publiquely attempt, to invade or surprise any town or towns, fort or forts, within this Government of the Mohawk; he shall be put to death.

    5th. If any man lyeth with a man or mankind as he lyeth with a woman; they shall be put to death, unless the one party were forced or under fourteen years of age, in which case he shall not be punished.

    6th. If any man or woman shall lye with any beast or brute creature by carnal copulation; they shall be put to death, and the beast shall be burned.

    7th. If any person shall bear false witness maliciously and on purpose to take away any person’s life; he shall be put to death.

    8th. If any person shall slay, or cause another to be slain by guile or by poisoning or any such wicked conspiracy; he shall be put to death.

    9th. If any person shall commit any willful murder, which is manslaughter, committed upon malice, hatred, or cruelty, not in a person’s necessary or just defence, nor by mere casualty against his will; he shall be put to death.

    10th. If any person shall geld any man or mankind to take away generative power or virility; he shall be put to death.

    11th. If any person shall geld any woman or womankind; he shall be put to death.

    12th. If any man forcibly stealth or carrieth away any woman or womankind; he shall be put to death.

    13th. If any marryed man shall lye with a woman by carnal copulation, other than his one wife; he shall be put to death.

    14th. If any marryed woman shall lye with a man by carnal copulation, other than her two husbands or one husband; she shall be put to death.

    15th. If any unmarryed man above twentyeight years of age and under fortytwo years of age shall maliciously and on purpose refuse wedlock for over fourteen days with any marryed woman under sixtythree years of age, said marryed woman having borne a son, or unmarryed woman under sixtythree years of age; he shall be put to death.

    ReplyDelete
  10. page 8.

    16th. If any person shall maliciously and on purpose deny any marryed woman wedlock with two husbands, said marryed woman having borne a son, or any unmarryed woman wedlock with one husband; he shall be put to death.

    17th. If any child, above sixteen years of age, and of sufficient understanding, shall smite his Natural Mother or Lodgemother, unless thereunto provoked and foret for the self preservation from death or mayming, then at the complaint of the said Mother and Lodgemother, and not otherwise, they being sufficient witnesses thereof; that child so offending shall be put to death.

    18th. If any stubborn and rebellious son, above sixteen years of age, and of sufficient understanding, shall not obey the voice of his Natural Mother or Lodgemother, and that when the said Mother or Lodgemother have chastened such son will not hearken unto them, then at the complaint of the said Mother and Lodgemother, and not otherwise, they being sufficient witnesses thereof; that son so offending shall be put to death.

    19th. If any unmarryed man shall lye with a woman by carnal copulation; he shall be whipt thirteen strokes, unless he hath his Natural Mother or Lodgemother authority, in which case he shall not be punished.

    20th. If any unmarryed woman shall lye with a man by carnal copulation; she shall be whipt three strokes, unless she hath her Natural Mother or Lodgemother authority, in which case she shall not be punished.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Mary did NOT have 2 Husbands. The Joseph in the Luke genealogy is in the Greek text depicted as not part of the actual genealogy, he's "As was supposed" the father of Jesus. But the real father being identified is the Grandfather, Heli, the father of Mary.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I recommend that you all read 'The Left Hand of Darkness' by Ursula K LeGuin. Superb scifi novel written by possibly the greatest novelist of the modern age. Ursula was years ahead of her time in predicting the benign consequences of genetic fiddling with humans and the resultant social changes that might follow. Sensitively written and a wonderful story of love and humanity. :-D

    ReplyDelete